DP Mail ‚c‚o@‚o‚’‚…‚‚‰‚…‚’@@@@@ *KA2> )
:Ï'
D°4DDDDDDL`”D4DC DDDDDI0
´DDÀ¤DI~„DDDDÏ´DDDÒDDDÀ$DDD!DDDIØDE»
DDJàÛUTDDLÄD¾8KDD
tDD~xDDDD{„¿ØLp6DDDKDDDDD\ìJÐ|DDDDD0ÄDDDD¼u
¤DDDDDŸøDDDDD¾&DDDDDDLDDDD
¤DDDDDDDDDLDÏ´DDDDDDDDDDEн'DDDDDDDDDDDD ÇDDDDDDDDDDDDDKÁDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
SIZE'
Return-Path:
Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.126])
by penguin (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 19DdqWjn3NZFl40
for ; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:24:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from dialup-67.30.35.249.dial1.dallas1.level3.net ([67.30.35.249] helo=earthlink.net)
by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1)
id 19dDQk-0003wX-00
for insidiousplot@earthlink.net; Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:24:38 -0700
From: insidiousplot@earthlink.net
Subject:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
To: insidiousplot@earthlink.net
X-Mailer: DreamPassport 3.2
Message-Id:
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 11:24:38 -0700
--- In DreamcastBrowsers@yahoogroups.com, "blueswirl
_fr" wrote:
> hmmm i feel aimed in this mail
well, only in the sense that it is aimed at everyone
, i suppose...
> when u support ppl to try to steal
> the work of a programmer that works for free to th
e dc comunity
support? where did you see me support it? i said p
eople should not be surprised when it happens... it
seems an intelligent thing to do when you do not kn
ow if the site will be there tomorrow...
you see, blueswirl, in a perfect world, you would ha
ve only your own reputation... but, the reality is
that you are next in line after several people who h
ave demonstrated that websites cannot be trusted and
a person surely can't be...
you seem to want to decide the mindset of those who
use your site rather than prove that you will be dif
ferent... no, you should know what their mindset ac
tually is...
many sites have said "trust me" and then screwed the
ir users... so, the users will have different expec
tations and act accordingly...
right? wrong? i really don't care, and i was not t
rying to teach "cyber-morality"... it is just the w
ay it is and i am making it clear... people do not
trust sites because of what so many sites have done
to them... therefore, some choose to copy stuff bef
ore it vanishes... if someone had copied the info a
nd tools on a couple of the great old sites, we woul
d still have some useful stuff that the sitemasters
chose to delete...
if the choice is copy something or lose it, i vote c
opy it... if you want to call that "stealing" there
is nothing i can do about that...
> what
> a brilliant idea, lets all do it and there wont be
any new idea for
> dcers anymore since all the programmers will stop
their work that
> became a real waste for ingrat ppl.
that is totally illogical...
so what you are saying is:
1 - i will make something useful
2 - they will thank me or i will stop
OR
2 - unless they use it the way i intended i will sto
p
i wonder about the motives of someone who follows th
is train of logic...
people have stolen stuff from dcbg ever since the ea
rliest days and it has not stopped us... my work, k
efka's work, curtis's work, used all over the intern
et, with no credit whatsoever, yet, it did not stop
us from making anything...
i would rather have my work all over the web uncredi
ted than for progress to stop...
i mean, what is the worst case scenario???
someone takes my stuff, and it gets out to more peop
le who get helped by it... or someone with knowledg
e takes my stuff and, based on what he learns from i
t, makes better stuff and the dc browser community b
enefits... and i benefit...
you are saying i should have a problem with that?
> u blame ppl who want to make a
> site because they are passionate, the reason why u
do it is that to u
> they will lose interest a day which is true
maybe something is lost in the translation, but, i n
ever said anything about blaming someone for being p
assionate...
i said people lose interest and, as you say, this is
true... i was further vindicated in my position wh
en i was informed that dreamsaves closed because it
was just not fun for the sitemaster any more... oh,
well, there is a great reason to dump all the files
people have uploaded to his site...
THOSE PEOPLE MADE HIS SITE WHAT IT WAS and he screwe
d them when it pleased him... kefka made his script
s, the users uploaded the files, the two biggest asp
ects of his site were given to him... in your other
post, you are saying people should upload files to
your site... why should they? we all did it to kef
ka's site and had more than a couple disasters... y
ou have to realize that there are others that came b
efore you that affect how we feel abpout this stuff.
...
at the moment, yes, i feel your site is the best one
to support, but, there are alot of people that have
to be convinced of that, after some past experience
s...
it might cause some newbs to have the wrong idea whe
n i make a post like i did, but, as i often do, i wa
s posting mainly to the people who have been here aw
hile who know exactly what i mean...
> but to me the most u
> support them the longer their site will live, that
s not a blackmail
> thats just logic, if someone thinks he wastes his
time he will
> probably no longer do it.
and that is the attitude that has killed several gre
at sites... you see, many people here have made thi
ngs because WE NEEDED THEM OURSELVES... it would be
impossible for us to feel we are wasting our time m
aking them... i make some bookmarklet, well, i use
it from that day on...
but, the ones who claim to make stuff just to help p
eople only do it until they feel they are not helpin
g...
which is understandable... don't make it sound like
i am bashing those people... i simply said that mo
re users should keep this in mind when trusting a si
te or relying on it...
but, this is why i release all my stuff, all my find
ings, etc.... the day i lose interest, the people l
ose nothing, anyone who wants can pick up where i le
ft off...
i was posting my work for months when no one was rea
ding it or using it at all... i made it for me and
anyone else who may eventually want it... if there
was still no one here, i would STILL be posting my w
ork... if anyone ever shows up, great, if not, i st
ill got what i wanted, which is stuff for my own use
.... i am no humnitarian doing anything "for the goo
d of the people", or at least that is not my first p
riority... but, i also realize that to keep my work
to myself or take it offlie because it "is not bein
g used by anyone" guarantees that no one else will b
enefit from it...
> personnally my saves and all my site will
> be usable as long as my hosts dont close, i know f
or sure free.fr
> will host me for a long time even after i stop doi
ng new pages, but i
> already looking for another host which could repla
ce stormnetwork so
> if anyone appreciate my work and dont want part of
this site sink
> help me finding a free php host with safe-mode off
..
well, that is just the way things are... again, my
point was to demonstrate that nothing is certain...
and, you can say your stuff will be there forever, b
ut, you have to consider that we have heard that one
before... you cannot blame us for having some skep
ticism right alongside gratitude... some sites stay
, most don't... you are turning that into some rabb
le-rousing call to all dcbg'ers to steal your script
s, which it is not...
and in fact, once again, you are giving way too much
credit... just about anyone who would have the kno
wledge and ability to crack your scripts would have
enough knowledge and ability to write their own, esp
ecially since the scripts for the open source upload
er, created right here, are still in the vgso files
section...
the sort of thing i was talking about was informatio
n and simple html and javascript tools, like the yah
oo login and bookmarklets... i did not have uploade
rs and such in mind when i wrote any of that post, a
t least as far as my comments about people "stealing
" stuff... i would bet at least half of the people
here could not even copy html and javascript-based t
ools, let alone cgi scripts...
bottom line, your site is great... and we have no i
dea if it will be here tomorrow... and those two th
oughts CAN co-exist in the same mind without one can
celling out the other... if i could copy all your s
cripts and files, yes, i almost certainly would, jus
t in case your site vanishes... if you do not like
that, you still have little to worry about... but,
we have all lost files to someone wo said their site
would be there forever and we hve all lost tools an
d info when someone got bored with their site...
worried about someone "stealing_" your stuff? wel,
as i have said here so often, people would stel our
stuff if we were not giving it away free... but, wh
y do we do what we do? for credit and intellectual
property rights? or to help whoever will be helped?
i gave a couple examples and can give a dozen more o
f people who were only in it to help others or for c
redit or whatever and then, when those reasons cease
d to exist, so did their stuff...
how much credit is enough?
how many people have to be helped to make running a
site worth it?
when we found your site and i emailed you, you said
you had thought about taking it down because no one
was using it... so, you cannot say we have nothing
to worry about... but, your scripts are secure and
few people here, if any, can do anything about it, s
o, your credit is secure...
WHEN (not if) you move on, hopefully you will make s
ure that you are not needed, your stuff can go on wi
thout you... most makers are underappreciated by mo
st users and that is just the way it is... all they
want is their free stuff... and we can spend all o
ur time locking our stuff up so only the "worthy" ca
n benefit or we can accept thanklessness and do it a
ll anyway...
insidious_plots...
http://home.earthlink.net/~insidiousplot